Exposing The Sophistry Of Joel Gwin's Debate Charts:
Part Fourteen

by Bill Reeves and Tim Haile

September 01, 2003

   This next chart by brother Gwin offers even more misrepresentation of brother Reeves' position. It appears to have been prepared to answer someone else.

Matthew 19:9 - Both Ways

   1. This chart is a blatant misrepresentation of brother Reeves! Where did brother Gwin learn this? What proof does he offer from any writing or vocal statement of brother Reeves that he “wants it both ways in Matthew 19:9?” Whom was brother Gwin debating that he prepared, or had prepared, the chart that makes this wild charge? How can brethren consider one honest and sincere who so treats his brother in the Lord? We call upon brother Gwin to retract this false representation of his brother, repenting of his actions and asking for pardon.

   2. One of his five (of ten) questions, that brother Gwin put to brother Reeves before the debate began, was this one (see chart #50): “If a man ‘puts away’ his scriptural wife when neither he nor his wife has committed fornication, and he does not subsequently commit fornication, is the wife really biblically ‘put away’?” The question and brother Reeves’ answer were charted and presented to the audience. His answer reads: “If you mean by ‘biblically put away,’ approved by the Bible, No, the Bible does not approve of the putting-away. If you mean, does the Bible really consider her repudiated by her husband, Yes she is really put away.” (emp. ours). Dear reader, could the answer be clearer? Brother Reeves says that she is “really put away.”

   3. In spite of this crystal clear answer, brother Gwin deliberately continued to use his afore-prepared chart that charges brother Reeves with wanting it “both ways in Matthew 19:9!" These chart-ideas just had to be presented, truth or no truth, right or wrong! His following chart (# 26) continues the same false representation. Once he got his answer (that must have surprised him!) from brother Reeves, why didn’t he simply drop or omit his charts # 25 and # 26? Certainly he wasn’t bent on misrepresenting his brother! Nothing forced him to use these charts! But, if brother Gwin repents of, and corrects this, brother Reeves will certainly forgive him.

   4. He has two scenarios presented in his chart, a yellow box on the left and a blue on the right. This is incorrect. There are NOT TWO scenarios in Matthew 19:9; there is only ONE, the one that Jesus explicitly states, and that brother Gwin presents on the right side in blue. Jesus did not present a scenario in which a man puts away his wife for fornication! This is arrived at only by inference. Brother Gwin may present two scenarios, but two are not set forth by Jesus in Matthew 19:9. Jesus deals with only the one that the Pharisees put to him (19:3).

   5. In the case of what he calls “Scenario # 1,” brother Gwin alleges that brother Reeves “wants ‘put away’ to mean really ‘divorced’ ‘in the eyes of God’.” Where did brother Gwin learn this? From the two and half hour study in person with brother Reeves and another brother? No. Did he read it somewhere in the writings of brother Reeves? No. Did he, during the six-months period, between his proposing the debate and the debate itself, inquire of brother Reeves what brother Reeves might believe on the matter? No. Either he, or another, if someone else prepared the chart, decided to so represent brother Reeves with no regard for truth in the matter. The chart just had to be presented, right or wrong! And, it was presented with pathos!

   6. In the case of what he calls “Scenario # 2,” his chart represents brother Reeves as wanting “put away’ to mean only “accommodatively” or “in the eyes of men.” Again we ask our brother: where did you learn this so as to put it in your chart here? How did you learn what brother Reeves wants in the matter, since you never asked him, nor heard him say such, nor read where he wants such? You did the dishonest thing of preparing a chart for the public, concerning what someone “wants,” and later asked the person what he “wants,” and when you get his answer, you still misrepresent your brother with your chart! Please explain this conduct of yours! Brethren will be waiting to hear your explanation.

   7. “Brother Reeves, which way is it?” Why is this question on the chart that was presented, when brother Gwin had previously asked brother Reeves before the debate began the first night, and had received brother Reeves’ definitive answer of Yes to the question: “If a man ‘puts away’ his scriptural wife when neither he nor his wife has committed fornication, and he does not subsequently commit fornication, is the wife really biblically ‘put away’?”. Yes, brother Reeves answered; the wife is really put away! But, when this chart was presented to the public, we were amazed! Why did he question brother Reeves, get his definitive answer, and then, after learning what brother Reeves’ answer was, still present the chart? Does our brother have no regard for truth? For facts? For respect for his brethren? Does his being “a boy just starting” justify such conduct? Why didn’t his father, a preacher of many years experience, call his hand on this? Was his father complicit in the chart’s production and presentation? There are many unanswered questions here. Brother Gwin can settle this matter in short order, if he will. Just repent of this, ask for pardon and destroy the chart. Or maybe, by the rule of justice that some apparently have, it is alright to misrepresent and malign one if he is an old, experienced preacher! Who cares about him; just feel sorry for the young fellow!

   8. The misuse of this chart proves that brother Gwin wasn’t debating brother Reeves, but some phantom opponent. He simply wanted to get before the public their response to every objection that they attribute to their opponents. But in doing this a good brother in Christ was patently maligned, and this apparently without twinge of conscience. Not bad, for a “boy just starting” (or, did he have coaching?).

   9. “Either way”. His quote here is true as respects the man marrying a wife who is unjustly put away: adultery is committed. Has brother Reeves every denied such? No, no more than brother Gwin denies it!

   10. Repeatedly we are seeing that some of brother Gwin’s charts were not prepared for a debate with brother Reeves, but only for generic purposes. Brother Reeves’ name was simply attached to a number of them, and unjustly so! For shame. Is it not amazing that brother Gwin would present two charts (#25, #26), telling the audience what he falsely claims that brother Reeves wants, and also a chart giving his question and brother Reeves’ answer, which answer explicitly states what brother Reeves’ “wants” (believes and states)? Did he and any coach of his think that the audience would be too dense to discern that obvious dishonesty in representing a brother in Christ? That some sectarian would do this is not surprising to us, but a young, sincere brother in Christ? This greatly disturbs us.

   This completes part fourteen of our study. Please check the next article in the series.

Introduction | Part Thirteen of the Series | Part Fifteen of the Series

Home Page